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James Clark can鈥檛 help but notice that time has marched on. One of the founders of London cost consultant Core Five, he is going through a list of the projects he would later work on after joining Davis Langdon as a graduate QS in the late 1980s.

鈥淐hiswell Street, Bunhill Row, Plough Place鈥︹�� He trots them off in quick succession. 鈥淚 looked after Woolgate Exchange for [property investor] MEPC.鈥�

It is pointed out to him that it has recently been redeveloped, this time by Mace for Stanhope. 鈥淎nother one,鈥� he sighs. 鈥淚t鈥檚 another reason why I have to retire. Too many of the projects that I built are being redone. It鈥檚 depressing.鈥�

Clark officially stepped down from the firm he helped to set up 13 years ago at the end of March 鈥� but he is planning on working at Core Five for a few days each month for the next few months and taking it from there.

鈥淲hat we鈥檝e both said is, 鈥�let鈥檚 give it three months and see whether it鈥檚 working鈥�. If it鈥檚 not working for the firm, I need to step back and, if it鈥檚 not working for me, I鈥檓 going to step back. If it鈥檚 working well, I will carry on if the firm is keen for me to do so.鈥�

There has been no bust-ups or fall-outs but Clark, who turns 60 in August, is keen to do something else while he remains young and active enough. He and Sara, a wine importer and his partner of the past six and a bit years, want to go travelling.

Rather than carrying on and slogging every day, let鈥檚 go and enjoy each other鈥檚 company. No one on their death bed says, 鈥業 wish I had spent more time at work鈥�

He lost his wife Ali a dozen years ago, aged just 50, to cancer while Sara鈥檚 husband John died seven years ago in his early 60s. Just over 18 months ago, Clark鈥檚 brother Andy, who was living in the US, died suddenly, aged 61.

鈥淎ll of that experience shapes you,鈥� he says. 鈥淲e鈥檙e young enough to go and enjoy our lives. Rather than carrying on and slogging every day, let鈥檚 go and enjoy each other鈥檚 company. No one on their death bed says, 鈥業 wish I had spent more time at work鈥�. I don鈥檛 want to be too tired to do much.鈥�

His departure, though, feels a bit like the end of an era given that he played a major role in the shape-shifting events that occurred in the wake of Davis Langdon鈥檚 decision to sell up to Aecom. A raft of London cost consultants 鈥� Core Five, Alinea, Exigere 鈥� came out of that acquisition which, 15 years on, for those in the eye of the storm, can still cause angst.

Clark had joined Davis Langdon in 1988 as a graduate QS from Trent Polytechnic. He had his interview with the firm when it was still called Davis Belfield & Everest and, by the time he accepted a job offer, it had been renamed Davis Langdon & Everest as the firm had merged with Langdon & Every in the meantime.

It kept its new name for another half a dozen years before eventually settling on Davis Langdon 鈥� best known as DL 鈥� after it became a limited liability partnership in 2004.

Clark worked at DL for more than 20 years, eventually leaving in late 2011. He was made a managing partner around 2003 and, as result, has an insider鈥檚 take of the deal which changed the face of London cost consulting for good.

He is not especially keen to get into finger-pointing but admits that he was firmly in the 鈥渘o鈥� camp when the DL partnership voted on the Aecom proposal. Asked why Davis Langdon was sold 鈥� unlike John Laing, picked up by O鈥橰ourke for 拢1 nearly a decade before, it wasn鈥檛 a distressed seller 鈥� he is at a bit of loss.

鈥淚 didn鈥檛 think we needed to [sell],鈥� he says. 鈥淚t鈥檚 quite a long time ago but I think there are pressures that are brought to bear by factions within any partnership.鈥�

He chooses his words carefully but says of the eventual decision to sell up: 鈥淲hen you have a very strong allegiance to a company and, when that company is your world, I think you care massively about it. It becomes an emotional relationship, not a transactional one. It鈥檚 a bit like loss; you have to process that and you sort of have to grieve the loss of the business.鈥�

The deal was completed in the summer of 2010 and Clark says he initially stayed on out of sense of duty.

鈥淭he whole deal is about the partnership and you go with the collective. We felt it was important to give it a go. You can鈥檛 chirp against it all, so we said, 鈥榣et鈥檚 give it a run鈥�.

鈥淲hen you are in a leadership position, it鈥檚 quite important you are singing from the same songsheet as the business because that鈥檚 your job. But, if you feel the tune is slightly different, you鈥檙e in a personal bit of conflict. At that point, it鈥檚 probably time to go.鈥�

I recognise Aecom is a great company. They just do things slightly differently to the way we feel they should be done

He has no animosity towards Aecom and understands why the firm made its move, sealing the deal for just over 拢200m. The DL name disappeared in 2013 after a period of being called the rather unwieldy 鈥淒avis Langdon, An Aecom company鈥�.

鈥淭hey wanted to grow their business, they wanted a foothold in the commercial aspects of the UK market to support the engineering businesses they had bought. It was a natural next step for them.鈥�

He adds: 鈥淚 recognise Aecom is a great company. They just do things slightly differently to the way we feel they should be done.鈥�

But he also says that Aecom鈥檚 move accidentally begat the companies that came out of Davis Langdon. There had been no grand plan, he concedes, to do so beforehand.

鈥淭he sale to Aecom basically put a rocket under our backsides. I suspect, if DL were here today, I would still be there and I think we all probably would 鈥� and I don鈥檛 think we would be enjoying it quite so much.鈥�

Clark, along with two other senior DL figures 鈥� Gerard Cook and Barry Hayden 鈥� resigned in late 2011. 鈥淲e had been talking about it but there wasn鈥檛 a lot of a plan,鈥� he admits. 鈥淪o we needed to think about what the plan might look like.鈥�

He is especially proud of the fact that, when they left, he, Cook and Hayden did not take a bunch of clients with them. 鈥淭here was absolutely no way we were going to talk to our clients [beforehand]. It would have breached a whole load of responsibilities we owed the company. We left with a completely clean slate.鈥�

The three were joined a few months later by fellow Davis Langdon refuseniks Chris Amesbury and the now retired Steve Pickersgill, who had also decided to call it quits.

鈥�We opened in May 2012 in the basement of [engineer] Mike Harvey Associates. He said, 鈥榊ou can have six desks in my basement鈥�. No agreement was required, he trusted us and we grew from there.

鈥淏y Christmas, we had filled up his basement and then came onto his ground floor and he said, 鈥榶ou guys are going to have to go鈥�. So we went to 83 Blackfriars, we took a floor, we gradually kept growing and we moved into 230 Blackfriars.鈥�

The firm stayed at 230 for eight years before, last month, it moved into a larger office at nearby South Bank Central.

In its first year, Core Five employed a dozen people and had an income of around 拢600,000. 鈥淣ow it鈥檚 something like 180 and it鈥檚 拢24m,鈥� Clark says, proudly.

Despite the absence of an initial plan, Clark says the firm was ambitious. 鈥淲e very confidently had three zeros before the 1 so our first job, job 0001, was a refurb in Pall Mall for QNB Capital, just across the road from the RAC Club.鈥�

But the project that put the firm on the map was an office scheme in the City called One Creechurch Place. It was built by Skanska for Helical and opened in 2016.

鈥淕erald Kaye [Helical鈥檚 then development director who later became chief executive before retiring last year] got in touch with us about it. It was a massive project. I鈥檓 forever grateful to Gerald for trusting us with it. That was the biggest thing for us because it said, 鈥�this firm is a firm of grown-ups鈥�.鈥�

From that came a slew of projects, notably British Land鈥檚 redevelopment of Broadgate. When its then head of construction Richard Elliott got in touch, Clark initially thought it was to work on a listed building that was a much smaller part of the redevelopment. 鈥淚nstead, he put us on the tower.鈥�

We鈥檝e always shut the conversation straight down. We are not going to sell the business

The tower in question was 2-3 Finsbury Avenue, which at the time was designed by Arup Associates, but was later redrawn by 3XN and is now being built by Sir Robert McAlpine.

He says the firm has had its fair share of would-be buyers but all suitors, either from the trade or private equity, have been rebuffed. 鈥淵ou might get a jokey 鈥榳ould you be prepared?鈥� question or unsolicited emails from private equity. We鈥檝e always shut the conversation straight down. We are not going to sell the business.鈥�

A little over 18 months ago, the firm became an employee-owned trust (EOT). Clark says: 鈥淚t was the right thing to do, to hand the business on to the next generation, hence the EOT. It ensures the independence of the business and it also ensures the succession.鈥�

EOTs, which were created in 2014 to enable employees to acquire 鈥� through the sale of shares by existing owners 鈥� a controlling interest in a company, have come in for a rough time recently given that several firms that have collapsed were EOTs when they sank. Clark says it is unfair to say EOTs were to blame.

鈥淲ith an EOT, you need to be patient and not greedy. Some times you wonder if some have tried to take a little bit too much out too soon, and then the business struggles for cashflow. Cash is king for any business.鈥�

He says there will be bits about work he will miss 鈥� colleagues and clients 鈥� and some bits he won鈥檛. 鈥淚 have lots of friends in the industry and I don鈥檛 want to lose touch with them or Core Five.鈥� He is adamant about one thing as well: 鈥淚 could never work for another QS. How could I?鈥�

As he prepares to bow out, Clark adds that the role of the QS has inevitably changed. 鈥淲e do everything quicker, more compressed, more overlapped today. Before, it was design it, then procure it and then build it. Now it鈥檚 all at the same time.鈥�

He says cost consultants have had to become better communicators since he started. 鈥淏ack in the day, it was more orderly, more calm and methodical. Now we鈥檙e managing volatility. We鈥檙e reporting to clients with often only half the information, but trying to give advice in that context.鈥�

And he has this to say to up and coming QSs: 鈥淚t鈥檚 really important your client understands what you don鈥檛 know as well as what you do know. Our job, I think, has become one of being really, really effective communicators.

鈥淒on鈥檛 be afraid to say [to the client]: 鈥業 don鈥檛 think we鈥檙e quite ready to make that decision and I don鈥檛 think you鈥檙e quite ready to make it鈥�.鈥�

He also believes the QS is not going to disappear in the face of an AI revolution. 鈥淚 don鈥檛 think AI is going to be as impactful as people are talking it up. I don鈥檛 think it will replace the QS or designers or engineers. I do think, though, that it will help people do their jobs more effectively.

Don鈥檛 make it a hatchet job. We were all hugely proud to work for that firm. So, when it was sold and things changed, it was inevitably a sad time for us

鈥淸But] the problem with electronic tools is that they鈥檙e only as good as the information that goes into them. If the information that goes into them isn鈥檛 very good, the answer that pops out isn鈥檛 going to be very good.

鈥淥utputs are highly fallible because it totally depends on inputs which are fallible. The QS will always have a role.鈥�

A few days after our meeting, Clark gets in touch with a few more thoughts on the Aecom deal for DL. He knows it can continue to stir passions, the emotions it can dredge up. But he insists that he doesn鈥檛 hold a grudge.

鈥淒on鈥檛 make it a hatchet job,鈥� he says. 鈥淲e were all hugely proud to work for that firm [Davis Langdon]. So, when it was sold and things changed, it was inevitably a sad time for us.

鈥淚鈥檓 most proud of what we have achieved with Core Five, the way we have shaped our business and the way in which the firm is perceived in the market. The key for me is that Core Five would never have existed had it not been for the changes at DL. It鈥檚 funny how life has a happy knack of turning out right in the end.鈥�